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	<title>Comments on: Impossible to Beat</title>
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	<link>http://dndnerd.com/impossible-to-beat</link>
	<description>Ramblings of a Nerd who likes to play D&#38;D</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:23:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: xaotik1</title>
		<link>http://dndnerd.com/impossible-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-36801</link>
		<dc:creator>xaotik1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dndnerd.com/?p=184#comment-36801</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the trick, isn&#039;t it.  Challenging them without breaking them. . .

People in my games have long since learned that min/maxing their characters is a two edged sword.  Sure, your half orc warrior can dump a lot of dps out there with his falchion, but if you don&#039;t bother even carrying a ranged weapon, you can expect to find things you can&#039;t do even more often than if you had spent a bit of effort to not suck at everything else.  

If you build a character without versatility, you set yourself up for the unbeatable situation all that much more.  You can be REALLY good at something, or you can reduce the amount of unbeatable situations by thinking ahead and making a character with more than a single ability. . .I you choose to highly specialize in something, all I can say is that you pretty much guarantee that you will be unable to effectively do much of anything else.

The players choose their characters, not the DM.  If they can&#039;t/won&#039;t choose to be versatile, they bring it on them selves.  I personally refuse to dumb down my games to keep the players fat and happy.  

That being said though, I rarely, if ever, add things that absolutely can&#039;t be gotten around by using your brain and/or luck.  Make your characters think outside the box and they will thank you. . .or quit.  Frankly, I don&#039;t want to play with someone who isn&#039;t willing to work at it anyway, so no big loss if they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the trick, isn&#8217;t it.  Challenging them without breaking them. . .</p>
<p>People in my games have long since learned that min/maxing their characters is a two edged sword.  Sure, your half orc warrior can dump a lot of dps out there with his falchion, but if you don&#8217;t bother even carrying a ranged weapon, you can expect to find things you can&#8217;t do even more often than if you had spent a bit of effort to not suck at everything else.  </p>
<p>If you build a character without versatility, you set yourself up for the unbeatable situation all that much more.  You can be REALLY good at something, or you can reduce the amount of unbeatable situations by thinking ahead and making a character with more than a single ability. . .I you choose to highly specialize in something, all I can say is that you pretty much guarantee that you will be unable to effectively do much of anything else.</p>
<p>The players choose their characters, not the DM.  If they can&#8217;t/won&#8217;t choose to be versatile, they bring it on them selves.  I personally refuse to dumb down my games to keep the players fat and happy.  </p>
<p>That being said though, I rarely, if ever, add things that absolutely can&#8217;t be gotten around by using your brain and/or luck.  Make your characters think outside the box and they will thank you. . .or quit.  Frankly, I don&#8217;t want to play with someone who isn&#8217;t willing to work at it anyway, so no big loss if they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Ari Morguelan</title>
		<link>http://dndnerd.com/impossible-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-36741</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari Morguelan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dndnerd.com/?p=184#comment-36741</guid>
		<description>Quality stuff here Donat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quality stuff here Donat!</p>
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		<title>By: The RPG Guy</title>
		<link>http://dndnerd.com/impossible-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-24766</link>
		<dc:creator>The RPG Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 18:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dndnerd.com/?p=184#comment-24766</guid>
		<description>:smile: I completely understand how you&#039;re feeling.  When you build your character for a particular purpose and the game master completely crushes you in that arena, it kind of leaves you thinking, &quot;Well, what the heck is the point?&quot; Railroading must be done properly.  I actually wrote a whole article on this.

@Xaotik1 I understand what you&#039;re saying and I absolutely agree with you. Being a great game master is about challenging the players.


The trick is to both challenge the players without completely crushing their will as players.  Feeling like, &quot;I can&#039;t do anything,&quot; is not a good sign from players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://dndnerd.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':smile:' class='wp-smiley' />  I completely understand how you&#8217;re feeling.  When you build your character for a particular purpose and the game master completely crushes you in that arena, it kind of leaves you thinking, &#8220;Well, what the heck is the point?&#8221; Railroading must be done properly.  I actually wrote a whole article on this.</p>
<p>@Xaotik1 I understand what you&#8217;re saying and I absolutely agree with you. Being a great game master is about challenging the players.</p>
<p>The trick is to both challenge the players without completely crushing their will as players.  Feeling like, &#8220;I can&#8217;t do anything,&#8221; is not a good sign from players.</p>
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		<title>By: Xaotik1</title>
		<link>http://dndnerd.com/impossible-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-13902</link>
		<dc:creator>Xaotik1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dndnerd.com/?p=184#comment-13902</guid>
		<description>I beg to differ.  Not every person they get in a fight with will be beatable, nor will they always succeed in everything they do. A character with a climb skill of 3 will NEVER be able to climb mount Everest, nor could a 6 year old defeat a trained soldier in hand to hand. Some things just don&#039;t turn out the way you want em to, regardless of how hard you try. Make them work for their rewards, they will appreciate them more.

The players have to choose their battles wisely.  At lower levels, characters should FREQUENTLY run into things they can&#039;t fight, and find traps they can&#039;t disarm, locks that they can&#039;t pick, etc.  That&#039;s the whole incentive they have to gain levels in the first place.  Otherwise why bother even having the level system to begin with?  Tease them, taunt them, give them something to strive for. . .

 I don&#039;t care how many times you bash your fist against a 3 inch thick piece of armor plate,you will NEVER get through it that way. Use the impossible to force the to think of other ways to accomplish the same goal.  Door won&#039;t open?  Passwall the wall, con the doorman, knock politely and push in once someone who CAN open it does so. Can&#039;t climb that wall?  Get a fly spell. Spider climb is nice.  Hammer and a chisel takes a while, but usually works for making hand and foot holds. Force them to think and not just bash or use the simplest means to an end.

If you are worried about injuring the players feelings, fine, be a softie and always let them win. . .of course, that is about as much fun and as challenging as using a q-tip to clean your ears, but hell, no hurt feelings.  Personally, I find that the players have a LOT more fun when things are challenging.  Ya, a few die here and there, but thus it is with the life of an adventurer.  If you consistently throw yourself into danger, you can expect to eventually feel the sting of failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I beg to differ.  Not every person they get in a fight with will be beatable, nor will they always succeed in everything they do. A character with a climb skill of 3 will NEVER be able to climb mount Everest, nor could a 6 year old defeat a trained soldier in hand to hand. Some things just don&#8217;t turn out the way you want em to, regardless of how hard you try. Make them work for their rewards, they will appreciate them more.</p>
<p>The players have to choose their battles wisely.  At lower levels, characters should FREQUENTLY run into things they can&#8217;t fight, and find traps they can&#8217;t disarm, locks that they can&#8217;t pick, etc.  That&#8217;s the whole incentive they have to gain levels in the first place.  Otherwise why bother even having the level system to begin with?  Tease them, taunt them, give them something to strive for. . .</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t care how many times you bash your fist against a 3 inch thick piece of armor plate,you will NEVER get through it that way. Use the impossible to force the to think of other ways to accomplish the same goal.  Door won&#8217;t open?  Passwall the wall, con the doorman, knock politely and push in once someone who CAN open it does so. Can&#8217;t climb that wall?  Get a fly spell. Spider climb is nice.  Hammer and a chisel takes a while, but usually works for making hand and foot holds. Force them to think and not just bash or use the simplest means to an end.</p>
<p>If you are worried about injuring the players feelings, fine, be a softie and always let them win. . .of course, that is about as much fun and as challenging as using a q-tip to clean your ears, but hell, no hurt feelings.  Personally, I find that the players have a LOT more fun when things are challenging.  Ya, a few die here and there, but thus it is with the life of an adventurer.  If you consistently throw yourself into danger, you can expect to eventually feel the sting of failure.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Grizz</title>
		<link>http://dndnerd.com/impossible-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-8175</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dndnerd.com/?p=184#comment-8175</guid>
		<description>PS. also make sure to roll the dice and pause before the second effect, so the players think it was chance they were unlucky, and you are not just scripting it.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS. also make sure to roll the dice and pause before the second effect, so the players think it was chance they were unlucky, and you are not just scripting it.  <img src='http://dndnerd.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Grizz</title>
		<link>http://dndnerd.com/impossible-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-8174</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dndnerd.com/?p=184#comment-8174</guid>
		<description>You make some interesting points.  Usually I will reward the player with natural resist by giving them something before hitting them with the effect again and crossing my fingers they do not repeat history.

Such rewards could be with items:  You managed to avoid my impossibly huge pit trap, and notice a bag of coins wedged near the wall you sprung to.  After pocketing the bag you fall into an adjacent hole.

Or you resist the &#039;s sleep spell, and get a couple kills in before another one lands another sleep spell on you. (in this case the reward is bonus XP)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make some interesting points.  Usually I will reward the player with natural resist by giving them something before hitting them with the effect again and crossing my fingers they do not repeat history.</p>
<p>Such rewards could be with items:  You managed to avoid my impossibly huge pit trap, and notice a bag of coins wedged near the wall you sprung to.  After pocketing the bag you fall into an adjacent hole.</p>
<p>Or you resist the &#8216;s sleep spell, and get a couple kills in before another one lands another sleep spell on you. (in this case the reward is bonus XP)</p>
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